Enough is Enough
My answer to the establishment of the GOP is “No.” I will not support a RINO. You can put one up if you like, offering conservatives and Tea Party patriots the fools’ choice between rampant lefty statism and moderate statism, but I will have no part of it. Do you hear me, Mitt Romney? Do you understand me Karl Rove? There shouldn’t be any way you people are in charge of anything given the mess you made during the Bush administration with your false doctrine of feigning conservatism while ruling as progressives. If we conservatives get our act together in time, we’ll realize that the first enemy we must defeat is you, and then you’ll be in real trouble. The problem for conservatives at the moment lies in deciding which of these candidates is not a shill for your purposes, and which among them you cannot easily control. It’s my intention to see to it that we conservatives and Tea Party patriots have a real choice. You think we’re going to roll over easily? Forget it!
Ladies and gentlemen, here’s how we can start: We, not me, but we can create a list of common traits upon which we can all agree and accept them as our baseline. We can decide what it is to be a conservative, and upon which principles conservatism rests. We’re going to need to reduce this list down to no more than ten fundamental principles, and no more than fifteen issues, and we’re going to prioritize them on that basis. We should be careful to exclude things from consideration upon which there is little distinction. We can then create a score sheet and people can offer evidence as to how a candidate may be scored on a given issue. Long before we get to that, we need to establish the lists. Our task will not be to endorse a particular candidate, but show how each of the existing candidates stack up against an ideal hypothetical candidate.
The truth is that this has been done by many people and groups. The difference is that we are going to do it on a shoe-string, on the honor system, and all from our own thoughts and ideas. We’re not going to copy anybody, if we do this. What I want to know from you is if you’re interested. I want to know if I’m wasting my time, or yours. I want to know if this is worth doing at all. What I’d like from you, if you don’t mind, is to give me some indication of your thinking about all of this. You can leave a comment to this post, or you can signify your interest by liking it, or you can send me an email, subject: Interested! If you have particular ideas, use the subject line: Ideas!
We are running out of time to influence this outcome. If we’re going to do this, it will need to be grass-roots and fast. Let me know what you’re thinking. Myself, I cannot stand the thought of the establishment ruling the day again. Maybe this is how we can turn the ship around. Thank you for your attention and time!
I'm right there with you, Mark. You have nailed my feelings.
I think Cain is a train wreck waiting to happen. His 999 plan won’t stand up under scrutiny. What else does he have? Where’s the beef?
Seems to me like Newt and Santorum are the only other candidates, with records of actually accomplishing meaningful things, who actually grasp the gravity of the situation we are in, understand the importance and need for Constitutional Government. They are pro energy independence, and seem to align pretty well with Sarah on all issues. They both have records of being consensus-builders like Sarah does. Both stand firm regardless of critics. Newt ‘thinks outside the box’.
What are your thoughts on Newt or Santorum?
Right now, the problem I have with all of them is that I've spent so much time spotting their various weaknesses and problems, I'm not capable of distinguishing among them objectively, and I think that's true of others as well. That's why we need to hammer out what it is that we're after. Then at least we can look at what's there from a point of view of clear-minded, dispassionate examination again. Let me hold off on passing particular judgments on any, but let's just resolve that at the end of this, we get better ideas. I'm willing to re-look Bachmann and even Perry at this point. We must defeat the establishment, or we're going to have a real problem later. Perry may be marginal in my view, hell, truth is they've each got more warts than witch hazel's nose, but we have to step back from that and start scrupulously comparing these people by virtue of a fair system of appraisal. Who knows where that leads? I want to ultimately talk records, but first we must define what we're about.
I am TOTALLY turned off of Michele Bachmann! She is all show no follow-through, an opportunist. The only ones running that I could even consider voting for in a primary or even a general at this point are Santorum or Gingrich , distant possibility would be Perry in general but not primary. The rest, no. I like Perry's hate for trial lawyers and desire for energy independence but I don't like his history . Cain will fizzle once his one issue – 999 – is vetted.
Romney=NO. Paul=NO. Hutsman=NO. Bachmann=NO. Cain=no. Perry=maybe. Gingrich=Yes. Santorum=Yes
That's how I see it now FWIW
Please take a look at these two articles. May help with our task.
Does Anyone Have a Grip on the G.O.P.?: http://nyti.ms/qwjalh (NYT)
Ron Devito: Where Gov. Palin Leads, We Shall Follow – http://bit.ly/ranHo0 via @C4Palin (Private Citizen President)
We need a Constatutionalist my man. The tools America needs were given to us in the Constitution Of America from our forefathers.
Like I've been saying on various blogs all day. We know the GOP believes in the next-in-line strategy. But we are not buying. They can go to hell! without the Tea Party the GOP is nothing.
That's the message to spread right now… WITHOUT THE TEA PARTY, THE GOP IS NOTHING!
America's ONLY Hope for Recovery, Restoration, & Renewal is Sarah Palin.
Listen up, GOP, We the People, We the Earthquake, nominate Sarah Palin for President of the United States of America.
That's pretty much how I see it.
Isn't it interesting, we all agreed on Sarah!
But then, she is very 'polarazing'! /s
Great idea Mark. To simplify it, all we need to do is to list Sarah Palin's traits as our baseline and work from there. The problem will be, when choosing someone other than Sarah, is deciphering who is lying and who is not. Do we really think that Perry will take America into energy independence? Not if the establishment has anything to do with it. "We" have been doing pretty good so far when we compare Bachmann to Sarah, Perry to Sarah, Newt and the rest of them. But the bottom line is, if the current establishment likes you, ie, Christie, Romney, Perry, then we know that we don't want them. The reason why Sarah is not running is because her own party does not like her "traits" which are the same traits that "we" like. So, let us start our own "WE THE PEOPLE" party. We sure will not be confused with anyone else because the GOP will come after us from the get go.
Mark…..thank you, you succintly said what I think we all are feeling. Yes, Yes, Yes…..we need to develop some focused points we are all looking for. Would be nice if SP was running, but at this time she's not, so we HAVE to get together and vet these candidates. I'm thouroughly disgusted by Fox and all the other media and the GOP basically telling us to go home, shut up and be good little sheeple's. NOT THIS TIME! This is the most important election in my lifetime…55 years. We cannot let them pick for us this time. If you have an idea how to put this list together, I'm in.
Your idea is a good one, but there is a major flaw in it, the candidates for whom that test will be applied to, none of them will pass it. I know this and so do you. The problem as I see it, is that the GOP has lost their real fear of the Tea Party, we have to restore that first, and we need to do it in a hurry, one way is purging the GOP out of it, for they made in roads into a lot of Tea Parties around the nation after the 2010 election. Look at the Tea Parties today are they really the same ones you saw during the 2010 election? No they are not. We need the Tea Party people we elected in 2010 to start speaking out, they are strangely staying out of this election debate. Do not waste your time with Palin, unless she turns around it appears to me that the wheels have come off as far as she is concerned. Restore the force of the Tea Party and we have a shot, if not, we will have no solid base from which to fight from.
I believe Palin will be very engaged in the 2012 vetting. Give her a little time, she just came off of 3 speeches and a flying trip to South Korea.
I tried to e-mail you but when I clicked e-mail me it did not show an address….We meet in Iowa I really like what you do….I like what you want to do….but I will tell you what I feel …as I look on fb on different sites I see so many going in different ways…people really don't know what to do…we are mad…we are all kind lost….a lady who no one had every told to sit down and shut up….oh I think and feel she will still fight and I feel we will never know the true facts as to why she decided not to run …I have just decided to take her at her word…I do feel she was fighting the Karl Roves, the group at Fox…she was fighting both parties and everyone and anyone who decided to write a book….so in the end we have been told who to vote for…because when the said in late August anyone but Palin we did not take then at their word…oh we fought back some but we still had Sarah out their. as a voice…
Mark I do not know if there is anything that can be done for this election …but if you think there is I am here
i'm in Mark
If the current field is all we have to choose from, Gingrich and Santorum seem to be the only possibilities, IMO.
And even then, deep in my gut, I have serious doubts that Santorum has the grit needed … it seems he's too worried about being liked to do what needs doing.
Mark, I like your thinking. I have a bit different thought though, and it might sound pessimistic to you, but it doesn't feel pessimistic to me.
I think there's no way Romney won't be our candidate. I think they promised him that 4 years ago when he dropped out so McCain could have it.
The only way I see to mitigate the danger we will face if Romney loses to Obama, or even if Romney wins, is to focus on Congress. Keep the House, win the Senate, and with super majorities in both. Veto-proof. Let a Constitutional conservative Congress stand between us and the Marxist Dem president, or the lackluster spineless GOP president, which ever one wins. Stopping their judge nominations, stopping their cabinet nominations, and on and on.
Governors will be crucial too. I'm sorry to sound like a wet blanket about the presidency, but I think it is sewed up. But we can lay the groundwork for 2016 or 2020 with cleaning out the House and Senate and filling them with Americans with 'servants' hearts.'
I'm like you though, I've believed for so long that I would be voting for Sarah, that I don't like any of them. They are all deeply flawed.
Mark there is no one..i will help you come up with the list but in the mean time im stocking up on more ammo!!!!!
Must read
http://conservatives4palin.com/2011/10/sarah-pali…
OMG! What a great read, and from England! Thank you my "cousin". Permission to share this far and wide? Let's let all of Sarah's supporters sit back and have a "think", and maybe over a spot of tea. Lol. MarkAmerica, I would love to hear what you think on this.
Great link, thanks PlainSupportoe2012.
The right grassroots effort could ultimatley take over the Republican Party and eliminate the RINOs and rename it the 'We the People' party. Then ask, encourage, rant and more to get Sarah Palin to join it and be our candidate.
Not going to happen fast enough for 2012, but very much a possibility.
I like your idea.
So far in this race I like Govenor Perry. Yes I know he has bombed the debates, but as far as values/principles go- he seems on the level. Do I agree with everything he has done- NO. Will I agree with all of his future policies? Hardly! But I do know that he is to the RIGHT of MITT ROMNEY.
Will we ever find a perfect candidate? Doubtful.
He has a pretty good record as a decade long Govenor.
Gov Sarah Palin isnt Running.
Cain, he's a likeable guy—but no political experience. I dont like the way he handled the rock issue. We have enough of that with our current President. AND his 999 plan makes him look like a one trick pony.
Romney may be next inline, but next to Huntsman he is leaning so far to the left he is just about holding hands with Obama.
Newt is brillant- but he is carrying so much baggage a bellman is needed. Personal and political.
Bachman talks a good game- but- meh.
Santorum- He's conservative- but wont win, and he comes across as whiny. He couldnt even get re- elected last time- should have been a gimmee. Didn't he endorse Arlen Specter for President? Ouch!
Dr Paul! Great on finance, and has delievered over 3000 babies. Kudos! But his foreign policy is a little shaky!
The conservative side of the Republicans DO need to rally behind a candidate. Otherwise the GOP, the MEDIA such as FOX, and CNN, and the NYT is going to chose the candidate for us. As you see they have pretty much done that already and it is only October of 2011.
Characteristics of a strong, Constitutional Conservative candidate:
1.) Demonstrated track record supporting constitutional principles.
2.) Demonstrates with their actions and history that government is not the solution, in almost all cases it is the problem.
3.) Significant, successful executive experience, preferably in both private enterprise and politics.
4.) Stands up and responds to Progressive smears.
5.) Has lived life from a strong moral and ethical base.
Mittens is getting about 20-30% of the polls now. That means 70-80% of those polled want someone else. Living in Tennessee, we constantly elect Progressive-Lites to statewide offices because one Progressive-Lite (Senators Alexander and Corker, Governor Haslem) is going up against one or more Conservatives – always! If the Conservatives don't rally around a single person, Mittens is a lock.
An alternate strategy would be to not have any candidate win 50% of the votes at the nominating convention. I'm not sure exactly what the rules are but I think that delegates are only held to their voted-upon candidate for one or at most 2 votes. After that they are free to vote for anyone. I don't believe that Sarah would turn down a nomination from the convention. And that would certainly prove that the Republican establishment doesn't run the party.
I agree with some of the previous comments regarding the importance of a filibuster-proof Congress. I think we can all agree, if Obamacare and Dodd-Frank are not repealed early in 2013, so much crap kicks in that we are toast as a country. It will be like a metastacizing cancer. I believe that part of Sarah's strategy has been to recognize this and decide to put all of her heart and soul into winning a filibuster proof majority in Congress for Constitutional Conservatives – the Tea Party. I don't see any of the presidential candidates, except maybe Huntsman, not signing repeal bills passed by overwhelming majorities in Congress.
The candidate should:
* Use the bully-pulpit to argue the rule of law with the Constitution — as written, original MEANING — the supreme law of the land, commit to and veto and bill not authorized as enumerated in Article 1 Section 8.
* Swear to, then protect and defend the proclaimed unalienable rights to life, to liberty, and to property (from whence comes the pursuit of happiness). Have brought to her or him any federal regulation not deemed to pass the "necessary AND proper" test — and, thus, violating unalienable rights — and eliminating it by executive order. Eliminate any agency who has no regulations passing the test.
* Given Article 1 Section 8, by executive order eliminate the U.S. Departments of Agriculture, Commerce, Education, Energy, Health & Human Services, Homeland Security (including its FEMA), Housing & Urban Development, 90% of Interior, 60% of Justice, Labor, 70% of State, and 80% of Transportation.
* Use the bully-pulpit, the veto, and the executive order to eliminate all welfare — individual or corporate, foreign or domestic — crony capitalism and government unions.
* Also based on the Constitution, bring all troops home from Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Southeast Asia, Western Europe who have been engaged in protecting others, not Americans' lives, liberties and property, bring home the troops from Afghanistan and Iraq who have been "nation building". If the Afghans and Iraqis want to emerge from the 7th century, let them do it themselves. Protect and defend America's borders and shores, using lasers, drones, and troops to manage.
* Sunset Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, and etc. Details on my plan if your wish.
Those, Mark, would be my criteria in descending order of priority.
Mark,
I am convinced that you are right…..we have deep convictions within the Tea Party. We need to make the GOP understand that we are serious and are a cause to contend with…….they do need to wake up and see the handwriting on the wall. We need to be that handwriting on the wall! The Tea Party is filled with people who deeply care and are paying attention to what is happening within the GOP. I am all for your plan……it's a beginning. God will show us the way if we continue to pray for wisdom and guidance in this whole process. We MUST get the clear message out there!!!! Thank you for being willing to start the ball rolling.
RomneyCare Advisor: ObamaCare is RomneyCare. ‘it’s the Massachusetts with three more zeros.’
http://conservatives4palin.com/2011/10/romneycare…
Why? Why would the establishment GOP want Romney? Levin mentioned yesterday how difficult it would be for Romney to run against Obama because , how do you run against obamacare? Rush points out that Romney is not conservative at heart because he has had to change his stance on just about all the issues that are important to conservatives, which is weird for a mormon anyway! Does the establishment WANT to lose to Obama? What is really going on here? Some would say we need to win this election so bad that we need to support whoever runs against Obama. But if Obama is so bad, and anyone can beat him, couldn't we and shouldn't we run the most conservative candidate we can? Isn't this the best opportunity we will ever get in our lifetime to stop the coruption once and for all? I knew I could trust Palin! But is that an option anymore? Could somone please give me real reasons why we can't give any support to Santorum. I can't find any real baggage that he might have, other than the fact that gays hate him, and try to shout him down at debates! If anyone has some real substantive reasons why he would be bad for America I am seriuosly open to hearing them. I don't mean "he's unelectable" either, I mean how would he be bad for America? That is the question we should be asking about all the people running!
They do not want the Tea Party conservatives to win at all cost and take a chance at loosing the establishment power. They would rather take their chances with Romney wining or even loosing and having Obama for 4 more years than have the TP win.
Below is a link to an article from Rush today. The article coming out in the NY Times this weekend is about the GOP Elite declaring war on the Tea Party.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2011/10/13/gop_…
What I can gather from this article is that the liberals at the NY Times and the scary people they represent are trying to split the Republican party and Obama wins. But this doesn't explain what they want with their power. Why not just join the Democrats, if they don't agree with the tea party? What's the difference?
Well put. Let's talk.
Arlen
arlenwilliams@yahoo.com
I know this thread is getting old already, but you did solicit comments and ideas. I won't go to lengths here to answer you but there looms a larger question for me.
Since the summer of 2008, politics has become a lot more important to me ans lots of other people that never gave it much thought. I know that's got a lot to do with the problems looming before us, and I am just as guilty.
The question is why do you need to generate your own list of common traits? I wouldn't focus on the individual but on what they've done. As you stated, there are many lists out there by many groups. Do we need a new 'wheel' invented.
For me, most of you and them are smarter at this than I am and I'm willing to use a source that has gained some trust and has a track record to lay down a set of items, qualifications, principles etc.
None of these folks are named Jefferson, Madison, Washington or Reagan so we have to expose their honor, character and integrity.
This lengthy post is brought to you by my study of (among many other things) ;
http://www.reclaimtheconstitution.com/ where it proclaims
"It's The Law That Governs Government
It begins: "Government is the oldest, largest and most pervasive lawbreaker in America."
We've written what we think is a comprehensive and defining pamphlet of principles, purpose and proposals for constitutional conservatives. "
Worth a look, even if it is not what you are after, it may shed some light.
Definitely worthwhile. I'll add it to the pile of responses I've gotten. Thanks!
Mark your idea and article are very good and there are many who will join with you. I will start right now. Here are my ideas for a solutions to build upon.
Problem:
Men in the public spotlight constantly are asked to express an opinion on a myriad of government proposals and projects. “What do you think of TVA?” “What is your opinion of Medicare?” How do you feel about Urban Renewal?” The list is endless. All too often, answers to these questions seem to be based, not upon any solid principle, but upon the popularity of the specific government program in question. Seldom are men willing to oppose a popular program if they, themselves, wish to be popular – especially if they seek public office.
Solution:
"The Proper Role of Government" The Honorable Ezra Taft Benson, Former Secretary of Agriculture address to the Nation.
"There are certain basic principles regarding the proper role of government. If principles are correct, then they can be applied to any specific proposal with confidence… The true statesman values principle above popularity, and works to create popularity for those political principles which are wise and just."
Text: http://www.latterdayconservative.com/ezra-taft-be…
Video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-27680185…
Mark,
Sedeuce has a good list of the qualities and experience I believe we probably all agree upon – for the candidate we would support. Now…..when we begin to measure those running against this list….well, need I say more?
FYI – I am seriously thinking of attending a "Campaign for Liberty" /"YAF" bootcamp in Austin on Sat, Oct 23…only costs $20. Here is the link: http://www.yaliberty.org/campaignbootcamps
Also – I'm thinking maybe all the Regional Coords in TX (and other states) should find a way to get together – for 1 day….to talk, plan and also begin to try to involve more of those in our respective Tea Partys to this end………since I imagine many of the members in these groups are also NOT enthused with our current crop of candidates.
My easiest email – RebinTexas at yahoo.
Reb
Here are 2 good articles worth reading for your consideration in your task.
Does Anyone Have a Grip on the G.O.P.?: http://nyti.ms/qwjalh via New York Times
Ron Devito: Where Gov. Palin Leads, We Shall Follow – http://bit.ly/ranHo0 via @C4Palin